Sunday, August 20, 2006

Are Black Women Scaring Off Their Men?

This entry is based on an article titled "Are Black Women Scaring Off Their Men?" that has been circulating via email for some time now. The article allegedly was published in The Washington Post, but I cannot testify to its validity. Despite this, the article addresses some valid concerns in our community, and is worthy of discussion. If you have not read the article, I pasted it below for your reference. If you have read the article already, just scroll down past it.

[Are Black Women Scaring Off Their Men?
The Washington Post By: Joy Jones
Have you met this woman? She has a good job, works hard, and earns a good salary. She went to college, she got her master's degree; she is intelligent. She is personable, articulate, well read, interested in everybody and everything. Yet, she's single. Or maybe you know this one. Active in the church. Faithful, committed, sings in the choir, serves on the usher board, and attends everycommittee meeting. Loves the Lord and knows the Word. You'd think that with her command of the Scriptures and the respect of her church members, she'd have a marriage as solid as a rock. But again, no husband.

Or perhaps you recognize the community activist. She's a black lady, or, as she prefers, an African American woman, on the move. She sports A short natural; sometimes cornrow braids, or even dreadlocks. She's an organizer, a motivator, a dynamo. Her work for her people speaks for itself--organizing women for a self-help, raising funds for A community cause, educating others around a new issue in South Africa. Black folks look up to her, and white folks know she's a force to be reckoned with. Yet once again, the men leave her alone. What do these women have in common? They have so much; what is it they lack? Why is it they may be able to hook a man but can't hold him? The women puzzle over this quandary themselves. They gather at professional clubs, at sorority meetings or over coffee at the office and wonder what's wrong with black men? They hold special prayer vigils and fast and pray and beg Jesus to send the men back to church. They find the brothers attending political strategizing sessions or participating in protests but when it comes time to go home, the brothers go home to someone else. I know these women because I am all of these women. And after asking over and over again "What's wrong with these men?", it finally dawned on me to ask the question, "What's wrong with us women?" What I have found, and what many of these women have yet to discover, is that the skills that make one successful in the church, community or workplace are not the skills that make one successful in a relationship.

Linear thinking, self-reliance, structured goals and direct action assist one in getting assignments done, in organizing church or club activities or in positioning oneself for a raise, but relationship-building requires different skills. It requires making decisions that not only gratify you, but satisfy others. It means doing things that will keep the peace rather than achieve the goal, and sometimes it means creating the peace in the first place. Maintaining a harmonious relationship will not always allow you to take the straight line between two points. You may have to stoop to conquer or yield to win.

In too many cases, when dealing with men, you will have to sacrifice being right in order to enjoy being loved. Being acknowledged as the head of the household is an especially important thing for many black men, since their manhood is so often actively challenged everywhere else. Many modern women are so independent, so self-sufficient, so committed to the cause, to the church, to career or their narrow concepts that their entire personalities project an "I don't need a man" message. So they end up without one. An interested man may be attracted but he soon discovers that this sister makes very little space for him in her life. Going to graduate school is a good goal and an option that previous generations of blacks have not had. But sometimes the achieving woman will place her boyfriend so low on her list of priorities that his interest wanes. Between work, school and homework, she's seldom "there" for him, for the preliminaries that might develop a commitment to a woman. She's too busy to prepare him a home-cooked meal or to be a listening ear for his concerns because she is so occupied with her own. Soon he uses her only for uncommitted sex since to him she appears unavailable for anything else. Blind to the part she's playing in the problem, she ends up thinking, "Men only want one thing." And she decides she's better off with the degree than the friendship. When she's 45, she may wish she'd set different priorities while she was younger. It's not just the busy career girl who can't see the forest for the trees.

A couple I know were having marital troubles. During one argument, the husband confronted the wife and asked what she thought they should do about the marriage, what direction they should take. She reached for her Bible and turned to Ephesians. "I know what Paul says and I know what Jesus says about marriage," he told her, "What do you say about our marriage?" Dumbfounded, she could not say anything. Like so many of us, she could recite the Scriptures but could not apply them to everyday living. Before the year was out, the husband had filed for divorce. Women who focus on civil rights or community activism have vigorous, fighting spirits and are prepared to do whatever, whenever, to benefit black people. That's good. That's necessary. But it needs to be kept in perspective. It's too easy to save the world and lose your man.

A fighting spirit is important on the battlefield, but a gentler spirit is wanted on the home front. Too many women are winning the battle and losing the home. Sometimes in our determined efforts to be strong believers and hard workers, we contemporary women downplay, denigrate or simply forget our more traditional feminine attributes. Men value women best for the ways we are different from them, not the ways we are the same. Men appreciate us for our grace and beauty. Men enjoy our softness and see it as a way to be in touch with their tender side, a side they dare not show to other men. A hard-working woman is good to have on your committee. But when a man goes home, he'd prefer a loving partner to a hard worker.

It's not an easy transition for the modern black woman to make. It sounds submissive, reactionary, outmoded, and oppressive. We have fought so hard for so many things, and rightfully so. We have known so many men who were shaky, jive and untrustworthy. Yet we must admit that we are shaky, jive and willful in our own ways. Not having a husband allows us to do whatever we want, when and how we want to do it. Having one means we have to share the power and certain points will have to be surrendered. We are terrified of marriage and commitment, yet dread the prospect of being single and alone. Throwing ourselves into work seems to fill the void without posing a threat. But like any other drug, the escape eventually becomes the cage. To make the break, we need to do less and "be" more. I am learning to "be still and know," to be trusting. I am learning to stop competing with black men and to collaborate with them, to temper my assertive and aggressive energy with softness and serenity. I'm not preaching a philosophy of "women be seen and not heard." But I have come to realize that I, and many of my smart and independent sisters are out of touch with our feminine center and therefore out of touch with our men.

About a year ago, I was at an oldies-but-goodies club. As a Washingtonian, love to do the bop and to hand dance styles that were popular when I was a teen. In those dances, the man has his set of steps and the woman has hers, but the couple is still two partners and must move together. On this evening, I was sitting out a record when a thought came to me. If a man were to say, "I'm going to be in charge and you're going to follow. I want you to adjust your ways to fit in with mine" I'd dismiss him as a Neanderthal. With my hand on my hip, I'd tell him that I have just as much sense as he does and that he can't tell me what to do. Yet, on the dance floor, I love following a man's lead. I don't feel inferior because my part is different from his, and I don't feel I have to prove that I'm just as able to lead as he is. I simply allow him to take my hand, and I go with the flow.

I am still single. I am over 30 and scared. I am still a member of my church, have no plans to quit my good government job and will continue to do what I can for my people. I think that I have a healthy relationship with a good man. But today, I know that I have to bring some of that spirit of the dance into my relationship. Dancing solo, I've mastered that. Now I'm learning how to accept his lead, and to go with the flow.]

Although I understand what is being said in the article, I am still perplexed by the suggestion that black women -- in 2006 -- must cater to a man in order to keep him. I have had this conversation with several men before and its always the same thing. "A man needs to feel like a man." Well what exactly does that mean?? Will dinner on the table when you get home from work REALLY make you feel like a man? Or, will knowing that the bills that we incur from our dual-income lifestyle will be paid on time make you feel like a man? I hope the latter. And I would hope that black men would be able to appreciate that the paycheck I receive from my job -- which consequently makes me get home the same time as you, and sometimes later -- allows us to have a certain lifestyle, and allows us the ability to pay our bills on time.

I think it is extremely hypocritical for men to complain about gold-digging women, or women who only want them for their "paper," and then to turn around and shun the women who are doing it for themselves. As I have told men in the past, the same characteristics that provide me the ability to be financially self-sufficient -- or, Notta Golddigger -- are the same characteristics they don't like at home. You can't have it both ways. If you want a submissive woman, then marry someone who will be financially dependent upon you.

As an unmarried, professional black woman, I take offense to the notion that I can go into a courtroom and aggressively argue my case on behalf of my client, and then I'm expected to go home and cook dinner for my man? I had a hard day at work too; why can't he cook for me? Why can't he listen to my concerns? Why can't we have a mutual respect for the time we each have to devote to work? So many questions, so few answers. Somebody talk to me.

--Notta

25 comments:

ronnie brown said...

objection!...married life is NOT an episode of Law and Order.

the self-sufficiency demanded by the workplace is in conflict with the MUTUAL submission that healthy marriage requires...you leave your job AT THE JOB.

trouble is, both men and women use money as leverage to determine who has the final say in making decisions for the household.

In this economy, most men are making less money than women...a lot of brothers who could be considered marriage material didn't finish college...while sister gurl was goin' to class, we were gettin' our party on and droppin' out...having no idea we were gonna pay a heavy price 15 years later.

Would to God we had enough dollars to complain about protecting ourselves from the "golddigger"!

You really want to know what makes a man feel like a man?...a woman's confidence in his COMPETENCE...a competence that's not tied to the amount he brings home. There are thousands of blue collar men, still starvin' writers and actors or men who just haven't found their niche, who are being kicked to the curb because their not the embodiment of the "Essence Man"...yet!

When you put too much energy in standing for your right TO BE RIGHT, the spirit of compromise gets squashed and both men and women end up being members of the lonely hearts club...

--Tshombe said...

This is a topic I discuss all the time with other black men.

WARNING!!!THIS IS MY OPINION!!!
This is a condition of up-bringing that men are predisposed to think that women are to be maids to them, which includes being tolerating, less argumentative, and bearer of his stresses of the world. This is all apart of the self-emasculation process, where men are taught from birth to have big balls, no crying, no display of emotion other than rage, and the list grows. I AM NOT MAKING ANY EXCUSE FOR US BLACK MEN!!!

White women are not the answer brothers...you're still emasculating yourself.

thespookwhosatbythedoor said...

While I agree with the fact that our men face constant emasculation in American society and therefore require a bit more ego-stroking than many "independent" black women are willing to give, I also know that there are plenty of educated, accomplished sisters who WILL work 10 hours a day, come home cook for their man, and end the night dressed in a crotchless negligee of his liking.

Nontheless, that will not stop these men from seeking outside of their relationship with that woman because the grass is always greener on the other side. So therefore it is hard to expect such women to do these things, and sacrifice and go beyond when it likely won't benefit them in the end.
To put it plainly, its not us, its them.

Crystal Apple said...

I agree that we, as women, are in a difficult spot. We have been made (yes made) to take on a role outside of the home, yet are still expected to maintain the home itself. I have found in some cases, men are willing to take on more of a 50/50 relationship (helping out with cooking, child care, cleaning the home) if the woman works outside of the home. Still, in far too many cases this is not true, IMO.

I am more than willing to take care of the home, if I don't have to work. But, if I do work, brothers need to recognize the strain some of them place on us to be super women.

With that said, I do believe some women (regardless of race), have forgotten how to make their men feel like men. A man wants to feel needed. Does that mean we have to take more a submissive role to do this? A man wants to feel like he has the final decision making power. Does that mean at times we need to better pick our battles, and even when "battling" be wlling to back down so he can have the final say? Men have far more basic needs than women do. They want food, sex, sleep, and a job. Does that mean we should focus on these things more so than any other? And all-in-all, men must be made to feel significant. If we are failing at this, then there is a strong possibility we will push our men away.

With that said, there is a respect that men must give in order to receive this "king-like" treatment. Most women I know are very reactionary. This means that if the man is treating his women in a way that makes her feel secure and loved, then she will in turn make him feel signifcant and work hard to meet his needs. However, if he does not make his woman feel secure- he blows through the finances (so she nedds to get a job), he stays out late at night (and can't help with taking their kid to school in the morning), or he is too aggressive (to the point where she shuts down and won't respond to him at all), then she probably won't do what she needs to do to make him feel significant.

Notta Golddigger said...

I think the biggest issue I have with the article, and with the attitude in general, is the expectation and entitlement issues that go along with it. Black men tend to think that they are entitled to certain treatment from a woman, when really, they should earn it. Like crystal apple said, if a man is taking care of business at home, i.e., providing a secured and loving environment for his woman, then everything else will fall into place. The woman will WANT to do these things for her man because that's what she wants to do, not because its expected of her.

--Notta

Hieroglyphic said...

Again, we read the same thing and come away with different conclusions. Must we continue this dance...this dance that further divides us; that provides for further fruitless debates about the same thing(s), only with different words and phrases and examples. The bottom line is that until both, a black man and a black woman, matures spiritually(which will allow for them both to settle into their God-given roles), mentally (which will allow for them to realize that it's not about who's right or who's wrong, but about what's right for 'us'), and emotionally (which will allow for them to understand that we both share the same emotions and feelings - all of them), we'll continue this dysfunctional dance. When will we realize that there is a generation coming up behind us, that whether we like it or not, or accept it or not, we bare responsiblity for showing them how to love, how to find love, and how to keep love. Stop thinking about your/ourselves. Since when was love based on bills being paid on time(and please don't misconstrue what I'm saying)?! From what I've seen, it appears that some black women are more concerned with trying to show/appear that they don't need a man, than to understand that we were created to NEED each other. What good is a plug, without a socket (and vice versa)? We MUST find a way to make it work people. Too many divorces, too many emotionally destroyed men, women and children, to many famalies torn apart, too much of everything, other than what we really need - love. Please, for the love of our people, let's stop it, let's stop it, and let's start getting it right!!!!

Curry said...

I agree with the Notta on the “expectation & entitlement issues”, but I want to take it a step further and say that black men SHOULD have a set of expectations AND a sense of entitlement. HOWEVER, it should be equally balanced with a likened sense of the same with the woman! There should absolutely be a bar of yoked expectations between a man and a woman. The last thing we should do is lose our expectations & sense of entitlement. Those that don’t have that usually settle for anything. Having said that I get sick of hearing men (and women) say a woman needs to make her man “feel like a man”. Not to sound cocky or arrogant but, I know I’m a man whether a woman acknowledges it or not, and a woman alone cannot validate that. My father validated it! Responsible fatherhood validated it! Standing when everybody else is sitting down validated it! Being strong, trustworthy and diligent validated it. So in essence how we’re treated in the home should be a true representation of what we’ve worked hard to earn.

Real brotha’s don’t need to be made to feel like a man, we just don’t want to be made to feel like less of a man. To put it simply, we don’t want the manhood that we have to display in our “9-5” to be diminished and squashed when we step in the door. That doesn’t always require a submissive action by the woman, i.e., cooking, etc. We want our black women for the way you smell, how soft your skin is, how you outwit us, how you love our children, and for just being so much sweeter than what’s outside the doors that we deal with daily. Man! It’s so much deeper than money!! It’s the assurance of having you there when we need you, trusting you with our sensitivity, knowing that we don’t have to stand in storms by ourselves. A woman that we can just kick back with, sometimes without even saying a word.

Unfortunately, I believe it all started with men. To make a blanket statement; the men of this generation are confused. Society has obscured the walls of manhood to the point that a whoooole lot of brothas dont know which way is up. So when we see women like Notta and the woman who wrote that article, we’re not sure exactly how we’re supposed to fit inside of their lives. Our angles have to change, as we think we should be more than you in order for us to walk with you. As crazy as that sounds, it’s the truth (well, according to me). Bottom line, black women’s standards have been raised and more and more men are failing to meet those expectations.

sweetest1913 said...

like the opinions being posted...I don tknow about anyone else...but I was always taught ( by my DAD) that...you have to be able to take care of yourself..never depend on a man to do it for you. if you do..then he will not respect you as a person. I took that to heart and live by it...I became self sufficient because he was right...you cannot depend on a man to do for you what you should do for yourself....they will always let you down. you know what???? I ENJOY being able to handle my own business! You ask any brother and what he wants and they say the same thing...I want a woman who has a job making her own money. But as soon as you raise your hand saying that you are that woman and they find out what it takes for you to make that money ( long hours at work) they all of a sudden get their feelings hurt when you cant spend time with them when they need you. And to Ronnie....get outta here with that...women appreciate the blue collar brotha...Only thing that is asked is...WILL YOU HAVE MY BACK THE SAME AS I WILL HAVE YOURS???? .... I mean....when I come home from work and need to vent about the pressures of being a black woman in corporate america..will you be there to listen? If you by chance get home before I do....can a meal be waiting for me? regardless to whether you cooked it or bought it. These are all things that I'm willing to do for you...can you do it for me? Having my back means being able to take care of me emotionally not monetarily. To know that you are there for me when I feel I cant make it through the struggle is worth more than MONEY! All a woman wants is a little reciprocity.....thats all.

Sean M. Crawford Sr. said...

You know I so agree with Hieroglyphic.

All of this trying to prove does create many issues within the race. And what is so sad is our children pick up these thoughts and attitudes and take them on into their lives.

Then we got the nerve to ask how come they don't have significant others. Easy because they have watched us adults expose them to things the should have been exposed to.

Come on my people we can't do this without each other.

Anonymous said...

From a married woman:

What makes us so independant as professional woman does leave many of us single and bitter. This world is not fair or balanced and the concept that you will wait for your husband to react before you show loving concern, kindness, appreciation, etc. will leave you single forever.

To get married and stay happily married requires you to do your part at times when your spouse may not do his. Likewise, my husband pulls his share when I am not totally up to par. Ultimately, we both are there for each other, many time at the same instance, sometimes not.

However, a week, month and sometimes a year can go by when it appears that I am pulling more weight. But you know what, with a good man, and yes there are good men out there, the tide turns and things are peaceful and great. You can not get married and stay married with boxing gloves on and saying what you will not do.

Marriage is hard, even for good couples. When you already have a "what about me attitude" you will remain single because marriage is not all about you but about "us."

At times professional women can have so many walls up and have been hurt so much that they lose the ability to just have a good time. At core we are women: gentle, beutiful, sexy and nurturing. Some professional women will not even date a man without a certain financial requirement or "status."

We must remember when we were teenagers or in collage and just had a good time on a date. Yes, now we have jobs, children and careers. If we want to keep our men we also must acknowledge that we are going to be tired at times, have to satisfy his needs physically and defer to his plan without so much mouth. A good man and a good husband will do the same for you because he wants you to be happy.

I understand both sides of the argument but women need to look in the mirror and stop bit**ing and complaining so much. I woud not even date many professional women if I were a man.

I am taking my marriage one day at a time and hope that my single sisters find a peaceful place and a loving man like I have. My loving man, however, is not a prince everyday and nor am I an princess at all times.

Remember: It helps to have a gentle and agreeable spirit to get and to remain married.

...Married woman

ronnie brown said...

sweetest1313, reciprocity is my middle name, my dear!. Now i won't front, i had to learn it the hard way...entitlement is something brothers can fall into simply because we don't know any better. We model ourselves after "The Mack" rather than Malcolm X...

The Thinking Black Man said...

I don't think that the Sister's should have to scale back who they are so us Brother's can feel more like men!

My Dad always preached to me, "Son, sometimes you've just got to grab the bull by the horns and go for it." To, me this simply meant - Hey, you've got to step up! You've got to MAN UP! Sometimes I think there are a group of Brother's out here that don't want to do that. They want to be half-assed, and do half-assed stuff and in return, they want their women to give them 100% love and 100% dedication. When these Sister's who have made their educational and professional goals a successfull reality aren't willing to tolerate this half-assed mentality from [some] of these Brothers - the Brother's take offense! Suddenly you start hearing all this [what I call] Black Women have Attitude - Bullsh*t!"

Sorry guys, but claiming that Black women have this overwhelming "Attitude" is bullsh*t. Using this so-called "Attitude" as justification to chase after White women is bullsh*t. Deep down I firmly believe that guys that can't handle successful, intelligent and articulate Black women - just don't want to step up. They are intimidated and weak.

A Brother - regardless of his profession or education, that has his sh*t together, and his head on straight and his mind and eyes focused will not be intimidated by strong Sister's. And, I'm sure the majority of Sister's will be receptive to them.

I think these high achieving women just want strong, open minded, focused, faithful, far-sighted, and loving men. I'm sorry to say, that some... some... some... Brother's are more concerned about playing the pimp role, and getting some booty and being half-assed in how they handle their business, and they just are too scared to step correctly to many of these Sister's. They know the sharp Sister's ain't havin' it!

Notta Golddigger said...

I totally agree with sweetest1913. We (women) are taught to be self-sufficient, and not reliant upon men, but like she said, black men don't want to deal with the things that go along with black women being self-sufficient. I was taught to speak my mind, not to sit quietly and internalize my feelings, while I listen to my man. Don't get it twisted, I wasn't saying in my original entry that I want a man to do all this for me, without giving it back to him -- reciprocity IS the key.

And ronnie brown, although reciprocity may be YOUR middle name, the sad fact is that many -- and maybe most -- brothas don't even know what reciprocity means.

--Notta

ronnie brown said...

Notta,
When did self-sufficiency become gender-specific? Isn't that a quality that supposed to be expressed by ADULTS?...I think some of the problems lie in how men and women define self-sufficiency/independence. Some men interpret a woman's self-sufficiency as ADVERSERIAL OR COMBATIVE whereas some women see it as a means of establishing LEVERAGE...two extremes that work against the MUTUAL reciprocity that a marriage demands.

secondly, do you really believe that MOST brothas are incapable of expressing reciprocity in their relationships?

Notta Golddigger said...

ronnie brown - "Self-sufficiency" has traditionally been gender specific. Back in the day, most young girls were taught that they need to find a man and get married, allowing their man to take care of their financial needs while they take of everything else. So in essence, girls were raised NOT to be self-sufficient. The changing trend that now encourages women to be self-sufficient is evidenced in the rise in divorce rates, unfortunately or not. Back in the day, if a woman was unhappy in her marriage -- because of infidelity, or whatever other reason -- she was often in a situation where she was financially unable to leave. So there she was, emotionally miserable, but financially taken care of.

Also, I don't see "self-sufficiency/independence" as LEVERAGE, rather it is necessary for me to be self-sufficient and independent in order for me to take care of myself and my daugther. I do the things I do for us, not to use it as leverage against a man. Me being self-sufficient is the only way my bills are going to get paid. No one else is going to do it but me. And what's the alternative, welfare? No, I don't NEED a man to support me financially -- which is different than saying I don't need a man in general. Of course men and women need each other, but it shouldn't be financially based, it should be for emotional support. Too often husbands leave their wives for someone else, and the wife is left looking crazy, scrambling to get a job.

To address your second comment/question -- YES, I really do believe that "MOST brothas are incapable of expressing reciprocity in their relationships." This is clear not only from my personal experiences in dating, but also from my interactions with the numerous amounts of married men who attempt to talk to me. Men want, want, and want; but don't want to do the things necessary to make women WANT to do those things for them. And its not about do this for me first, and then I'll do it for you. Its about establishing an environment where we do these things for each other, no questions asked. Like you said in your previous comment, "entitlement is something brothers can fall into simply because we don't know any better." Whether men no better or not is up for discussion, but either way, that sense of entitlement is something that has been ingrained in our men.

--Notta

ronnie brown said...

Notta,
Let me provide some clarification. In regard to self-sufficiency, I should have asked "why must it be gender-specific?" I wasn't making reference to the traditional gender inequality of the past.All grown adults ought to be able to function as independent entities.

What i'm concerned about is how self-sufficiency co-exists within the context of a MARRIAGE where mutual cooperation is supposed to be a priority. How does a woman who's been "left out to dry" in a previous relationship enter into a new one without the psychic baggage of trying to "protect herself" by being overly independent and controlling? You don't consider that kind of behavior a type of leverage?

Now please believe, i'm not trying to give any wiggle room for a man who's slacking, but it seems to me that MUTUAL reciprocity can't flourish where there's no trust. You can't "guard your flank" and trust someone at the same time.

Notta Golddigger said...

Sure, all grown adults OUGHT to be able to function as independent entities, but this is not always the case, thanks in part to the effects of the gender-specific discussion I had in my most recent comment. My original point was about black men not wanting gold-diggers or women who are financially dependent upon them, but then don't want to deal with alot of the characteristics that come with women who are financially independent. That comment has spurred all of this discussion about finances.

I totally agree with you that "mutual cooperation" should be a priority in a marriage; however, the reality is that black men typically want us to cooperate with them, and not the other way around. How does ANYONE whose been "left out to dry" in a previous relationship enter into a new one without the "psychic baggage" of trying to protect oneself? Althought that question is relevant to both men and women (and does not amount to leverage)-- it is not necessarily relevant to this conversation. Female independence does not necessarily equate to overly independent and controlling behavior. For me, it equates to a desire to be respected for who I am and what I do, just like I respect my man for who he is and what he does. It equates to me not wanting to put aside and forget about my hard day, just so I can sit and listen about my man's hard day -- sometimes I need to vent also. It equates to the idea that my man is just as capable of cooking as I am, and that cooking is not EXPECTED of me just because I have a vagina. It equates to equality with my man, not to serving some subservient or lesser role, again, just because I have a vagina.

That is the point of what I am saying.

--Notta

sweetest1913 said...

well said notta...well said. man do I like this conversation!

Curry said...

“Reciprocity” has come up more in this conversation that anything else. The message that this blog is sending me, and should be sending all black men (since we’re the subject of the original question) is that this isn’t 1928, 1953, 1967, or 1979. As black people (specifically black women) have progressed socially and economically, our relations with each other has to change as well. As long as “we” make enough money to pay the bills and live comfortably and progress, the discussion about financial this, that & the other should be relatively limited. There is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much more to relationships that money. We’re all grown folk, we all know we have to bring something to the table. Now let’s starting being real to each other & building each other up. At the end of the day, the month, and our life the only that’s going to matter is the love that we make.

Don’t expect something out of someone that you don’t expect out of yourself.

Don’t’ expect someone to be something to you that you’re not willing to be to them.

VRB said...

Did I make an error in submission or was my comment censored?

Notta Golddigger said...

VRB - I didn't get a comment from you. Can you please try to post it again?

--Notta

Ruminations of a Racial Realist said...

As has been pointed out, a lot of people have this attitude that because black men have been so emasculated by racism, black women need to take a more submissive role in relationships. Like you I disagree very strongly with this way of thinking; black women albeit in different ways have had it just as hard as black men if not worse! I think both partners should support each other; a truly healthy relationship would not involve one partner "lording it over the other".

BTW I have just done my own post on colorism (as gendered racism) - you might like to check it out.

Clare

Hieroglyphic said...

In reading a few of the comments, it seriously sounds as if Sweetest 1913 and Notta, have issues relating to forgiveness, rather than, "...black women scaring their men off". The scaring off that you two 'appear' to be doing, stems(ing) from the hurt and pain of a previous relationship(s). A refurbished heart is what's needed in this case, not a debate on whether or not the loser you dated is a 'fair and balanced' assessment of (most)'black men'.

Again, we (men and women) have roles. In every aspect of life, men are assigned roles, and women are assigned roles. Roles are assigned based upon differences (physical, mental, emotional, etc.)Family barbecue; men grill, women hook up the sides. Church; women operate the daycare, men till the ground(s),...etc. Nobody (I hope) is saying that one is less or more capable of fulfilling that particular role than the other. It's just that when it comes to interpersonal relationships, primarily and most importantly, marriage, the roles that we were created to play allows for a much smoother flow (and that doesn't mean problem free).

So, regardless as to money made, title, occupation, or whatever...if you play your role, you'll give your team a pretty good chance of winning.

Oh, and this is just a small observation...why does it seem as if it's only the married people who seem to get how this should work?

Black and Old Gold '06 said...

I totally agree with Hieroglyphpic! Women are not born to be independent. This is learned behavior because Mama'nem and Big Mama'nem...saw that Pookie and Ray-Ray nem daddy wasn't no good. So they created this "You don't need a man to do..." attitude.
Women and men have a role and it is not always about who earns what, who is entitled to what...who cooks and does not cook or who gets home first. Why do we futher seperate ourselves by this idiotic behavior and mindset???!!!
I wouldn't care if she was Condeliza Rice... (although...I am currently working on a Ph.D in Psychology. I would be very happy today if I knew that when I got home from this gruelling day of class...someone was there (not to say here is dinner...) but, to say baby how was your day? I love you soooo much for who you are and what you trying to accomplich.)and I worked at Wal-Mart, as long as we can get it done together then the bottom line is met, and prayerfuly the goals can be met.
I have never thought that a women owed me, or that there should be a quid pro quo initiative. I have always said "hey...lets just make it work!!"

Black and Old Gold '06*

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Take it easy

Blackman