Sunday, October 08, 2006

Black Women/White Men

Let me start off by saying that I am sick of the hypocrisy that is exhibited by black men. I recently read an article by a black man in which he admonishes black women who refer to the increasing numbers of black women dating white men as "revolutionary." The article itself is not hypocritical because the writer is consistent -- admonishing both black men and black women who date white people, but it raises some issues that I have with the subject.

The hypocrisy surfaces when black men criticize black women for dating white men, when the black men have either dated white women before (or are married to them), or when they don't consistently offer that same criticism to their brothas who date/are married to white women. I have heard it from black men on a number of occasions, including from black men who are married to white women -- they don't like it when they see a sista with a white guy.

My first response to that is -- WHAT??? My second response is: if so many black men weren't married to/dating white women, maybe there would be more options for sistas to date black men. The writer of the referenced article claims that the numbers of black men married to/dating white women is relatively low (he clearly has never visited Indianapolis, where it appears to be an epidemic); however, even those low numbers have an effect on the ability of sistas to date/marry a black man.

Here are some staggering statistics: generally, there are about 8 black men for every 10 black women, largely due to high rates of infant mortality and homicides. However, when you factor in drug addiction, incarceration and unemployment, the number of eligible (marriageable) black men is reduced to about 5 men for every 10 black eligible women. Yes, 5 black men for every 10 black women!!!

So as my friend would say, MISS ME with your hypocritical attitudes. Although dating white men is not my thing, I don't knock sistas for choosing to date white men rather than sit around and wait for a black man to become eligible.



Hathor said...

Imagine the ratio when one is sixty.

Robin said...

What a great topic. The writer of this blog happens to be my niece. She can tell you that I am one of those sistas who has yet to come across the RIGHT black man. I love the brothas, but I don't love the idea of sitting at home on the weekends alone because here in Dallas, as I guess is the case in Indy, the brothas are out having a good time with the white girls! What are the good black women to do? If a large majority of the eligible black men have shunned the sistas for whatever reason, none of which I find compelling, who is left for the black woman, White Men! Now, I am with my niece and I have not explored this possibility, but when faced with the prospect of having no companionship, it may be something we sistahs should consider.

thespookwhosatbythedoor said...

I happen to have read the article that Notta is referring to, and I agree that there is a great deal of hypocrisy. While the author himself professes his love for black women and his desire to exclusively date sisters, he does not acknowledge that his personal opinion is not a reflection of all black men.

I agree with the previous poster that sitting at home alone on a Saturday night is not cool. However, I diagree that white men are the only option. I'd suggest dating Latino, Asian or even Middle Eastern men.

I won't knock a sister for dating a white man, but I for one could not do it. Even if I could get over the twisted sexual history of white men with black women, I cannot get over the smell. Working in a predominently white male environment has exposed me to what appears to be a consistently putrid, natural body odor that I could never stomach. Nonetheless, I have come across some fine Latino brothers. I also met a sexy Moroccon/Lebanese man the other day. And they smelled wonderful!

ronnie brown said...

uh, sistas are just fine with me, thank you.

Anonymous said...

What smell are you talking about? I am married to a White man and he as never had a putrid smell...LOL!

The Thinking Black Man said...

Hey Notta'

This phenomenon is alive and well in DC. Maryland and Virginia. I've noticed that there are large numbers of Black men with White wives around military installations.

I wonder if these Black men feel that White wives are more acceptable, or more benefical around the country and the world as transfers and relocations occur.

It can certainly be a disappointing situation for Black women that want solid relationships with solid Black men.

Personally, it took me a few years to accept and understand why Black women sometimes choose White men. I am NO opponent of true love when it is based on NON-RACIAL factors, but for the Brothers that look down on Sista's and place a higher value on White women, I find that unforgiveable.

Notta Golddigger said...

It is definitely refreshing to read the words of "ronnie brown" and "the thinking black man." I don't think enough brothas these days outwardly express the love and appreciation they have for sistas; so thanks to both of you for doing just that.

I have just a couple of more comments to add to the pot:

First, "thespookwhosatbythedoor" is off the chain talking about a "consistently putrid smell!" LOL! You are crazy!! And although I agree that white men are not the only other option outside of black men, I think that applies regionally. In the DC/MD/VA area, it is much easier to find "fine Latino brothers" or "sexy Moroccon/Lebanese" men. Trust, it ain't that easy in Indy or Dallas to find those fine exotic men.

Also, I feel for "hathor" because she's right, as we (women) get older, it gets harder and harder for us to find a good man because 60-year-old men don't want to date 60-year-old women -- they want to date women in their 40s.

One last comment RE: "the thinking black man's" reference to black men who look down on sistas -- I have noticed that a lot of non-black women (not just white women, but women of other backgrounds too) who are dating/married to black men like to make generalizations about and stereotype black women. They seem to think that they are better than black women because "our men" chose them instead of us. However, they fail to realize that its likely that a black man chose them because of the black man's own insecurities and shortcomings in being unable to deal with a strong black woman. Any punk can choose to deal with a woman who is meek and opinionless; however, it takes a real man to be secure enough in himself to accept that his woman might have her own opinion.

ronnie brown said...

when did a meek and opinionless woman become the gold standard?

i must be from another planet...sigh!

thanx for the propers, Notta...but on the real, i consider a strong sista a prize...some Black men who abdicate their responsibility consider a strong Black woman a reproof to their slackness...

The Thinking Black Man said...

I'm with Ronnie - THANKS!

Unfortunately, I think a lot of Brother's just don't want to step up and be men... so they find weak women [of all races] to allow them to be bums.

That's part of The Strong Black woman that scares some guys. These clowns want a Mama Number Two, to pick up after them and clean up after them and just do nothing but tell them how great they are and expect nothing of consequence in return. I think that is why a lot of Brothers use the, "Black Women have too much attitude," line. What they are saying is "The Sista's ain't taking no sh*t from me, and I can't handle it."

Like Ronnie B. said - Strong Sista's are a prize... a treasure to be coveted.

Curry said...

I'm tiiiirrreed of hearin' kats talk bad about black women. Damnit I'm starting to get offended. My FIRST question is "Man, ain't ya momma black?" Minus 2 brothers, I've got nothing but black woman in my family. I'm RAISING a black woman! I'm gonna start slappin' FIRE off folk when I hear them talking about sistas!

See, the "ignant" is coming out. Let me hush .......

Anonymous said...

First of all my mother is part “black”, so I love “black” women obviously. Now, having created a bit of a mosaic of a dating history, I’ve been intensely exposed to several different cultures/races/backgrounds. Of course that doesn’t make me an authority on interracial dating, BUT I can at least point out some moderately unbiased constants.

1. American women are pretty much the same, regardless of race.

2. Spanish (Puerto Rican in this case) women are just as “attitudinal” as “black” women.

3. Asian (Chinese-American in this case) women usually gravitate towards “white” or “black” tendencies depending on what neighborhood they were raised.

4. “Black” women are more versed in the gravity of the “black” struggle than other races, and as a result they tend to push us (“black” men) a bit harder. I assume this is out of sheer concern to see their mate succeed, in an effort to shatter statistical predictions.

5. Middle Eastern (Egyptian in this case) tend to be a bit more guided by other forces than other ethnic groups which may pose problems when adapting to day-to-day nuances. Vague? 1 word…RELATIVES.

6. “White” women are extremely open to understanding the “black” experience and sometimes can seemly overcompensate, which may easily be interpreted as probing or even worse, condescending. This too, I assume is out of sheer love for their mate and wanting to completely understand “our” world.

Notice that when I reference the common historical racial categories of “white” and “black” I use quotation marks. This is because-and I strongly believe this now-that skin color and hair type is an extremely broad and Manichean method of identifying ethnic groups. DNA tells us that the entire human population was derived from the same group of ancient people, thus we all carry a vast majority of the same haprogroups and genes. Furthermore, “white” is not a geographical location or lingual tongue, nor is “black” as compared to the aforementioned Spanish (mother tongue, Puerto Rico specific), Asian (Asia, China specific), Middle Eastern (Egypt specific). Just a thought…perhaps white and black identifiers only exist because somebody WANTS them to?

I say mix responsibly.


ronnie brown said...

spliting hairs on "identifiers"? "white" only exists because it's VALUED...Black is, because it IS!...whether we're from America, Puerto Rico, Dom. Republic or Brazil; our African ancestry isn't to be "in quotes"

Anonymous said...

Even though this is an extreme tangent on this quite attractive lady’s blog (nice picture;)), I do see where you’re coming from Ronnie, but I feel that perhaps you missed my point.

Technically, you could say that everyone has African ancestry. Also, Africa is huge and since most of the kidnapped African diaspora can’t identify their geographical, or tribal roots beyond the slave ship, we have been unfairly lumped into the group known as “black”. The word black is not the problem. In my OPINION, “black” trivializes the fact that we DO have a rich history, and had a home and existence prior to our current living conditions. What living conditions? Well, around the world “black” is associated with inferiority, violence, incivility, lower wages, yadaya. And it doesn’t have to be this way. And it is also not about being too good or whatever to be called “black”, it is more about…let’s just say, growing up in meager surroundings doesn’t mean you’ve got to stay there.

Whereas “white” is usually just a place holder for English, Welsh, Scottish, German, Italian, you get the picture, all of which we have histories to which we have all been extensively exposed to. Therefore, “white” carries somewhat of a prestige or “value” (to use your word). To them “black” is just, “oh they’re here, thanks for the cotton shirt, and the cigarettes.” Maybe extreme, but you feel me?

Of course we prolly can’t all trace our roots to our original country or pre-geopolitical tribe, but we deserve to be identified with a history rather than a preempted image, or our present and future will continue to be sculpted by everyone but “us”.

Hathor said...

ronnie brown,
I think "black" as living in the context of "white," otherwise we are people of African decent.

I have never heard Africans define themselves as black, only in a national or ethic identity.

Interesting though, they seem to be more comfortable dating outside their race. May be because they do not define themselves in the context of the white man, even while acknowlegding their colonial oppression. I only speaking of those I have met. It may not be a general trend.

ronnie brown said...

i think i see your point; but feel free to clarify! LOL...i use "Black" as an umbrella term; to identify all those of African ancestry...white supremacy has stigmatized "black" in the same way that they have deified "white" why not embrace it and take it back?

Gunfighter said...

I married a white woman.

I married her because I love her.

We have been married for almost 13 years.

I'm not insecure.

I'm not unattractive to black women (until I open my mouth and don't sound "black enough")

I don't hate black women... I was raised by black women.

Until you "pulled the veil" from my eyes, I had no idea that I only married Susan because of my own insecurities or shortcomings.

I find many of the attitudes expressed here to be uncharitable and shameful.

Notta Golddigger said...

Gunfighter, to me, the fact that you made the comment "I'm not unattractive to black women (until I open my mouth and don't sound 'black enough'" indicates that you've had this problem with black women in the past. Perhaps your bitterness with those problems had led to your marriage to "Susan." I don't doubt that you genuinely love your wife; however, it seems to me that you turned to a white woman only after being told you don't sound "black enough" by black women. If this is the case, then it is certainly your insecurity that has led you to marry a black woman.

Notta Golddigger said...

Correction on my last entry: the last sentence should read:

"If this is the case, then it is certainly your insecurity that has led you to marry a white woman."

Anonymous said...

I too live in Indianapolis and appears that a huge majority of black men are involved/married to white women.